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	<title>Comments on: Algebrator review</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893</link>
	<description>Mathematics, learning, computing, travel - and whatever...</description>
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		<title>By: neven jurkovic</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-62918</link>
		<dc:creator>neven jurkovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-62918</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your comments. We are constantly looking to improve the Algebrator software and  specific examples such as the one you gave help us a lot.

Regards

Neven
Softmath</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comments. We are constantly looking to improve the Algebrator software and  specific examples such as the one you gave help us a lot.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Neven<br />
Softmath</p>
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		<title>By: mayhem</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-62911</link>
		<dc:creator>mayhem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-62911</guid>
		<description>i think it&#039;s not just a matter of telling it what method to solve. in this case, what happened is that the software is unable to simplify the left hand side. i tried to enter the left hand side as an expression (not an equation) and use the solve button to simplify it, it basically does the same thing (stuck at 2 terms and unable to merge into 1). so even if we tell it to consider using log, it wouldnt be able to figure it out. in fact, the software is acting exactly like my students! haha ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think it&#8217;s not just a matter of telling it what method to solve. in this case, what happened is that the software is unable to simplify the left hand side. i tried to enter the left hand side as an expression (not an equation) and use the solve button to simplify it, it basically does the same thing (stuck at 2 terms and unable to merge into 1). so even if we tell it to consider using log, it wouldnt be able to figure it out. in fact, the software is acting exactly like my students! haha &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-62910</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-62910</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the info, Mayhem.

As I said earlier, perhaps these algebra &quot;show the steps&quot; solutions should give the user some choices during the process. 

So in your case, you could &quot;nudge&quot; it to do it via logs.

Or another option is to give all flavors of solutions and you could look at the whole lot. But then, that could become tedious...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info, Mayhem.</p>
<p>As I said earlier, perhaps these algebra &#8220;show the steps&#8221; solutions should give the user some choices during the process. </p>
<p>So in your case, you could &#8220;nudge&#8221; it to do it via logs.</p>
<p>Or another option is to give all flavors of solutions and you could look at the whole lot. But then, that could become tedious&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mayhem</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-62909</link>
		<dc:creator>mayhem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-62909</guid>
		<description>I saw a friend had this installed and played around with it a bit. Not sure whether the version is the same as the one reviewed (it&#039;s 4.0 when I checked the version my friend had), and I only tried a few equations to solve, but I&#039;ve got to say the program shows promise but really needs some work. I tried a really simple equation: 2^(2x+1)+4^(x+1)=96. I could solve this just by observation: answer is 2. Of course I was hoping that it&#039;d combine the expression on the left-hand side and then do a log. nope, it simply change the 4 on the left hand side to a 2 and then says there is no solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a friend had this installed and played around with it a bit. Not sure whether the version is the same as the one reviewed (it&#8217;s 4.0 when I checked the version my friend had), and I only tried a few equations to solve, but I&#8217;ve got to say the program shows promise but really needs some work. I tried a really simple equation: 2^(2x+1)+4^(x+1)=96. I could solve this just by observation: answer is 2. Of course I was hoping that it&#8217;d combine the expression on the left-hand side and then do a log. nope, it simply change the 4 on the left hand side to a 2 and then says there is no solution.</p>
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		<title>By: Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-45108</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-45108</guid>
		<description>Hi. You can only find the inverse of a square matrix only (like 2x2 or 3x3).

It is not possible to find the inverse of a 3x2 matrix. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.intmath.com/Matrices-determinants/5_Inverse-matrix.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Inverse of a Matrix&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. You can only find the inverse of a square matrix only (like 2&#215;2 or 3&#215;3).</p>
<p>It is not possible to find the inverse of a 3&#215;2 matrix. See <a href="http://www.intmath.com/Matrices-determinants/5_Inverse-matrix.php" rel="nofollow">Inverse of a Matrix</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Ur site is very useful..</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-45094</link>
		<dc:creator>Ur site is very useful..</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-45094</guid>
		<description>please if anyone know help me..how to find the inverse of a 3 x 2 matrix..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>please if anyone know help me..how to find the inverse of a 3 x 2 matrix..</p>
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		<title>By: neven jurkovic</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-13577</link>
		<dc:creator>neven jurkovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-13577</guid>
		<description>Zac,
I appreciate your comments. Default solution settings are always a double-edge sword. However, you are right in that certain choices need to be made more apparent.

We will take many of your comments into consideration  for the next release.

Regards
Neven</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zac,<br />
I appreciate your comments. Default solution settings are always a double-edge sword. However, you are right in that certain choices need to be made more apparent.</p>
<p>We will take many of your comments into consideration  for the next release.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Neven</p>
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		<title>By: Murray</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-13562</link>
		<dc:creator>Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-13562</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Neven and BBosley. Thanks for your comments.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Neven:&lt;/strong&gt; I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my review. Let me comment on each of your points.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;1. Equation x + 1 = 5.64385619 was solved the way shown, because Solution &#124;settings &#124;Integer was on. For &#145;normal&#146;     solution the setting needs to be Real. The default is Integer     because users typically want solution to equation such as     2x=3 to be x=3/2&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Perhaps there needs to be an indication somewhere on the screen that the setting is &#039;integer&#039;. That would prompt the user to change the setting if they wanted a decimal answer. You are right, tho - the default seems to be a fraction answer in many math text books. That is weird to me, since decimal is more user friendly (where it is a non-recurring decimal).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But it stll does not explain why I saw unnecessary factoring of the denominator...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;2. Previous and Next buttons take you through multiple     transformations in one step (i.e. aa/bb -&gt;a^2/b^2 will     have two transformations. (It is our fault for not disabling     buttons when only a single transformation is present)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That makes sense. I share your pain - it&#039;s always the little things we overlook when building these things.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;3. Algebrator can solve the quadratic equation by     grouping, completing the square and using the quadratic     formula. This can be accomplished via the Solution &#124; Settings     dialog&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Perhaps this should be presented to the user as a pull down menu, after the software recognises that it is a quadratic? (Rather than requiring the user to go looking for a Setting hidden somewhere.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;4. Number of steps can be controlled via visibility     setting (click on visibility on main menu bar). The matrix     problem will show 13 steps when visibility is set on low.     Some students need more and some less details&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It may have appeared that I was criticising the number of steps shown - I wasn&#039;t. I was more criticising the point that some matrix classes still require mountains of Gauss-Jordan steps on paper and I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s the best use of human brains.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;5. Regarding the &#145;fundamental issue&#146; of showing     the steps &#150; the primary reason for existence of     Algebrator is to show steps and explanations. The fact is     that 90% of teachers still do require students to provide     steps &#150; Algebrator is here to fill that need.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Yes - you are quite right about most teachers requiring the steps. I&#039;m just looking forward to the day when less human effort is spent on things that computers can do much better. [The cut-off line for this is debatable of course. Students still need to be able to do &lt;strong&gt;basic&lt;/strong&gt; operations on paper
before they can understand what a computer can do for them. Also, not every student has access to a computer.]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;6. &#147;Gripes&#148; - In regards to editing the user     entered problem &#150; you can do it (just double click on     it). The other gripes do have merit.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Ahh - somehow, I never think to double click - there was no file to open, after all. Perhaps this facility can also be flagged in a tooltip (or popup) that appears first time the user is typing something? [They could be given the option &#039;Don&#039;t show me this again&#039;].&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
    &lt;p&gt;7. [...] The fact is that the MS can give steps for a very     small subset of problems it solves. Also it gets stuck on     simplifying problems as simple as (x^2-y^2)/(x-y). [...]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;OK, I&#039;ll take your word for it at this stage.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;BBosley: &lt;/strong&gt;One of the first CAS&#039;s I ever used was Derive. It used to fit on a floppy disk, if I remember rightly. And yes, it was quite good. Thanks for your summary of products.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Neven and BBosley. Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p><strong>Neven:</strong> I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my review. Let me comment on each of your points.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>1. Equation x + 1 = 5.64385619 was solved the way shown, because Solution |settings |Integer was on. For &#8216;normal&#8217;     solution the setting needs to be Real. The default is Integer     because users typically want solution to equation such as     2x=3 to be x=3/2</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Perhaps there needs to be an indication somewhere on the screen that the setting is &#8216;integer&#8217;. That would prompt the user to change the setting if they wanted a decimal answer. You are right, tho &#8211; the default seems to be a fraction answer in many math text books. That is weird to me, since decimal is more user friendly (where it is a non-recurring decimal).</p>
<p>But it stll does not explain why I saw unnecessary factoring of the denominator&#8230;</p>
<blockquote>
<p>2. Previous and Next buttons take you through multiple     transformations in one step (i.e. aa/bb -&gt;a^2/b^2 will     have two transformations. (It is our fault for not disabling     buttons when only a single transformation is present)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That makes sense. I share your pain &#8211; it&#8217;s always the little things we overlook when building these things.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>3. Algebrator can solve the quadratic equation by     grouping, completing the square and using the quadratic     formula. This can be accomplished via the Solution | Settings     dialog</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Perhaps this should be presented to the user as a pull down menu, after the software recognises that it is a quadratic? (Rather than requiring the user to go looking for a Setting hidden somewhere.)</p>
<blockquote>
<p>4. Number of steps can be controlled via visibility     setting (click on visibility on main menu bar). The matrix     problem will show 13 steps when visibility is set on low.     Some students need more and some less details</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It may have appeared that I was criticising the number of steps shown &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t. I was more criticising the point that some matrix classes still require mountains of Gauss-Jordan steps on paper and I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s the best use of human brains.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>5. Regarding the &#8216;fundamental issue&#8217; of showing     the steps &#8211; the primary reason for existence of     Algebrator is to show steps and explanations. The fact is     that 90% of teachers still do require students to provide     steps &#8211; Algebrator is here to fill that need.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes &#8211; you are quite right about most teachers requiring the steps. I&#8217;m just looking forward to the day when less human effort is spent on things that computers can do much better. [The cut-off line for this is debatable of course. Students still need to be able to do <strong>basic</strong> operations on paper<br />
before they can understand what a computer can do for them. Also, not every student has access to a computer.]</p>
<blockquote>
<p>6. &#8220;Gripes&#8221; &#8211; In regards to editing the user     entered problem &#8211; you can do it (just double click on     it). The other gripes do have merit.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Ahh &#8211; somehow, I never think to double click &#8211; there was no file to open, after all. Perhaps this facility can also be flagged in a tooltip (or popup) that appears first time the user is typing something? [They could be given the option 'Don't show me this again'].</p>
<blockquote>
<p>7. [...] The fact is that the MS can give steps for a very     small subset of problems it solves. Also it gets stuck on     simplifying problems as simple as (x^2-y^2)/(x-y). [...]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>OK, I&#8217;ll take your word for it at this stage.</p>
<p><strong>BBosley: </strong>One of the first CAS&#8217;s I ever used was Derive. It used to fit on a floppy disk, if I remember rightly. And yes, it was quite good. Thanks for your summary of products.</p>
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		<title>By: neven jurkovic</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-13517</link>
		<dc:creator>neven jurkovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-13517</guid>
		<description>I meant to say &quot;steps or explanations&quot; :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to say &#8220;steps or explanations&#8221; <img src='http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: neven jurkovic</title>
		<link>http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893/comment-page-1#comment-13516</link>
		<dc:creator>neven jurkovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.squarecirclez.com/blog/algebrator-review/893#comment-13516</guid>
		<description>Hello BBosley,

Thank you for your comment. Since Bagatrix is our main competitor, I would be very interested in knowing what areas of algebra you found that Bagatrix covers, that Algebrator doesn&#039;t. (Also do you remember which version of Algebrator you vere reviewing?).  We strive to produce the most comprehensive package around, so your comment would really be appreciated.

In regards to Derive - in terms of coverage, it beats any other mentioned piece of software hands down (including Algebrator); unfortunately it does not show steps  explanations.  You are correct - TI (current owner) disconnected it, favoring a different CAS engine in their graphing calculators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello BBosley,</p>
<p>Thank you for your comment. Since Bagatrix is our main competitor, I would be very interested in knowing what areas of algebra you found that Bagatrix covers, that Algebrator doesn&#8217;t. (Also do you remember which version of Algebrator you vere reviewing?).  We strive to produce the most comprehensive package around, so your comment would really be appreciated.</p>
<p>In regards to Derive &#8211; in terms of coverage, it beats any other mentioned piece of software hands down (including Algebrator); unfortunately it does not show steps  explanations.  You are correct &#8211; TI (current owner) disconnected it, favoring a different CAS engine in their graphing calculators.</p>
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